Scholar Scholar, what will its class and role be?

Discussion in 'Disciples of Magic' started by Shigaru, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. Shigaru

    Shigaru Active Member

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    There has been quite a bit of speculation on this topic and I wanted to have a discussion thread for it here. What do you think the initial class will be for Scholar?

    Will Arcanist dual branch into SCH and SMN?

    Some people are shooting for Arcanist dual branching into scholar and summoner but I don't think this will be the case.

    As far as we know, classes still level at the same pace as the job its based off of, so once your SMN and ARC are 50, it makes no sense to me to unlock SCH at 50 instantly. This also doesn't sit right with me in the fact that it will basically eliminate a chance to have you go back to level 1 to level a new job. For those of you who haven't played FF XI, this was huge as it kept areas full and parties available at all levels for the entire life of the game. In FF XIV this, along with level sync, translates to more options to fill dungeon groups.

    Also on the topic of it dual branching, people are claiming 'they both use books!' which, while true, isn't at all evidence of a dual branch. WHMs and BLMs use the same type of weapons, only they were given different names. Just as a simple example, the most commonly accepted terms for the books seem to be 'Tomes' and 'Grimoires' which right there points to it being a possibility of books being available to more than one class and job.

    What will the initial class be then?

    But where does that leave us? We have zero leaked information at all on what could come as its initial class. I'm pretty much 100% sure it won't be musketeer (even though guns+magic is believable as a support hybrid ala bard in FF XIV) because the art we have for SCH clearly shows her holding a book, ruling out guns as a weapon. Will we get a form of 'Enchanter' job or something? Or a 'Tactician'?

    What about their starting city?

    All that settled, where does that leave us on the starting city? In a recent post to the lodestone, starting cities for each class were listed.

    Limsa Lominsa
    Marauder
    Arcanist *
    Gridania
    Archer
    Lancer
    Conjurer
    Ul'dah
    Pugilist
    Gladiator
    Thaumaturge


    This list would leave me to believe that the starting city for this new class would be Limsa Lominsa in order to even out each cities starting classes to three. And even if Arcanist -does- end up dual classing, Limsa Lominsa would still be its starting zone. But does this fit to the lore? How much do we actually know about Scholars role in XIV?

    Scholars role in battle

    All above speculation is well and good, but it doesn't really effect the Scholars role in battle. Will they be a subpar BLM and a subpar WHM shoved together? Will it be pushed into more of a support role? Maybe it will be a support/healer combo since bard already seems to corner the market on support/dps combo. I could see it being a worse healer than whm with additional support abilities to perhaps mitigate damage or even buff allies but where does that leave its damage output? And would the damage even be used at all outside of the solo leveling experience?

    My money is on it being a slightly subpar healer with strong support skills to back it up and make it desirable in its own way to fit in nicely with WHM. I'd also like to see it have a decent array of enfeebles with subpar black magic to back up its damage output for solo leveling.

    What is everyones thoughts on Scholar? We have a week until E3 and the only thing keeping me sane is good old fashioned discussion. Go!
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  2. Madrone Damodred

    Madrone Damodred Active Member

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    My vote is:

    Its own class
    A type of book
    Limsa Lominsa
    Hybrid of Black Mage and White Mage with a few uniques of its own, and will probably be able to jump into either role those two jobs play.
  3. vicious

    vicious Active Member

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    I believe it will be a branch off of arcanist, though I don't know how they're going to work around that jobs level with your class thing. While, theoretically, they could have 2 "book" classes and just call them something different (book and tome, for example), I think they are going to have to eventually make each class branch off into 2 jobs - why not start with this one? It would allow for faster job rollouts - since you'd only have to design mechanics and spells for one job instead of a class AND a job - and allow for even quicker and more flexible roll shifting even in locked instances (if your WHM healer needs a little help, you can switch over to SCH from SMN without changing weapons).
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  4. Madrone Damodred

    Madrone Damodred Active Member

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    There seem to be a lot people in that camp. I respect your opinions. Those MSK > SCH guys on the other hand....

    That is indeed a development/content shortcut, and also makes two jobs very similar to one another, unless class abilities also change with job crystals. Its instant gratification for lazy players if there isn't some way to require the same leveling playtime for the 2nd job. Its unbalanced unless implemented to all classes. I mean who wouldn't level a class where you get 2 jobs over one where you get just 1 job.? Aside from those who don't like playing mages of course.... The flexibility to work around the existing system limitation that holds you to 1 class or job in an instance? I doubt that would be possible. Those are actually reasons why I think they won't do 2 jobs/class, or they will find a method of implementing it around most/all of these things.
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  5. vicious

    vicious Active Member

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    I think it will be implemented to all classes sooner or later, otherwise you're going to end up with combinations of class/job that may not make a whole lot of sense simply because you've bound yourself to a 1:1 ratio with classes and jobs. For example - what unused class would you put with red mage that would make more sense than thaumaturge or conjurer?

    Furthermore, it gives people who really only want to level 1-2 classes more flexibility. Those who don't like the leveling aspect of the game could still heal, for example, under this guideline (assuming scholar will have healing abilities) without having to go 1-50 all over again. While I personally enjoy leveling, I know many people don't.
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  6. Luko

    Luko Well Known Member

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    My speculation was originally the same as vicious, but I too can't seem to get around the "dual leveling" dilemma.

    As for gameplay, it's been a while since I broke my scholar out in XI, but they had job abilities that allowed them to specialize in Black or White magic for a certain amount of time. The trade off was essentially that you'd have a slightly weaker version of a Black mage in your group that could switch to a relatively powerful healer in the blink of an eye if need be.

    To me, that's far more attractive than simply specializing but wouldn't be near as enticing for people who love having that one role they excel in, so it's not going to be for everyone, which is totally fine in my book.

    I admit, I'm getting myself a little pumped thinking about it solely on the role and abilities it had in XI which is a little unreasonable, but you've got to understand: of ALL the classes they could have added from XI, I never thought they'd add my Scholar. It wasn't an extremely popular class. Needless to say, I'm pretty psyched.
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  7. Shigaru

    Shigaru Active Member

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    Fencer.
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  8. Madrone Damodred

    Madrone Damodred Active Member

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    I think Vicious meant of the 8 classes besides Arcanist, where would RDM fit? RDM is a problem-child. It should go with THM and CNJ equally, and get equipment selection of typical mages as well as better/medium armors and swords. Also with its split development between white and black magics it would need to learn those spells more slowly than CNJ and THM do. Also its needs access to some sword WS's. Only it really has no history dabbling with the tanky spells and abilities or heavy armor of GLA. In my mind each of those things necessitates a new class.

    Where would DRK fit? Would you build it on GLA, a tank class? MRD? LNC?
    Where would THF fit?
    RNG seems like a no-brainer at least. And PUP I guess, although I could see maybe PUG > DNC.

    But you see, jobs are vastly different from one another WS and ability-wise most of the time. They really shouldn't share a class for that reason alone. Some mage jobs are pretty similar however, using the same schools of magics. Also on the subject of DoM weapon types, they're less diverse and in more need of sharing the same weapons. Then again, there are more than 2 Sword and Dagger jobs. What's a second polearm job? DRK with a Scythe?
  9. vicious

    vicious Active Member

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    But wouldn't you classify fencer as a DoW and not a DoM? Yes, they wield a sword and, yes, they inflict DoTs, but they are most definitely a physical class whereas Red Mages - at least to me - are definitely in the DoM realm.
  10. Hyoda

    Hyoda Active Member

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    All in all SCH questions are definitely adding hype to the game. Funny how Yoshida announced Scholar but yet the website hasn't been updated (until E3). What throws me off is scholar was announced in question #19 in the live letter but yet in #21

    Q21: Do you have any plans to add another healer besides the white mage?

    A21: You might see a new class/job that can heal in the future.

    Scratching your head yet? Little odd that he would make that comment after announcing SCH. What information we do know is Scholar shares both light and dark arts. Don't know if Yoshida took that question as "Do you have any plans to add another MAIN healer other than white mage?" because then that would make sense. Scholar playing as a support to healers.

    But I'm about to say something CRAZY! I believe Yoshida is going to announce 3 more additional new classes/jobs.
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  11. vicious

    vicious Active Member

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    No, I did mean what new class would you put in to match with him. I assume RDM would go with CNJ to balance the jobs out, assuming there is, in fact, dual jobs for every class and they will, in fact, be used to "balance" classes (note, I mean this from a heal/damage or tank/heal or tank/damage perspective, not calling any class imba right now).

    I feel dark knight would be a perfect balance to Paladin, though Thief may require a new class. I feel I must stress that I don't think they shouldn't add new class/job combinations, just that making 2 jobs per class has many benefits both on the development side and the user side that I, personally, feel outweigh the "cons".

    ***EDIT*** It just occurred to me that my DRK/Paladin scenario would have the DRK using a sword and shield... not exactly accurate. I'll have to think about that some more.
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  12. Madrone Damodred

    Madrone Damodred Active Member

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    RDM talk is straying off the topic of SCH.

    I'd say DoM. They dabble in melee, hence the name Red Mage. Have never really had much in the way of melee abilities, aside from basic WS from the weapons in XI (all jobs got them), and magic or abilities that enhance melee - enspell/spell blade sort of stuff, temper, haste. PLD and DRK often dabble in magic, but they're DoW.



    Yeah about the sword/shield. Although in many FF games they have used 1H swords. In IV, a character changed from DRK to PLD. I see them as polar opposites in a lot of ways- white magic vs black magic, damage absorption vs damage dealing at the expense of its own hp. Which is why I have a hard time seeing them share the 15 or however many GLA spells/abilities.


    I think SCH will shed some light on this. Classically its a hybrid job. So either we'll see how SE handles a 2nd job on a class, or we'll see how they make a functional hybrid with just a pool of ~20 abilities/spells to draw from.
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  13. Madrone Damodred

    Madrone Damodred Active Member

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    SCH's existence was announced, but they intend to keep all other info about it close to the vest for revelation at E3.
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  14. Hyoda

    Hyoda Active Member

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    Lol I'm aware that it will be. Why I put "until E3" in my post. Silly RDM.
  15. vicious

    vicious Active Member

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    I don't know about that. One other thing we're leaving out in this discussion is another development point - they're already releasing, at a minimum, one job that is completely and totally untested in the entire scheme of things. We are 2.5 months away from launch, 2 at the START of beta 3, and they're just now unveiling a new job. That will, alone, be a push to fix what's broken and tweak what's slightly off. A whole 'nother set would be madness.
  16. Hyoda

    Hyoda Active Member

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    Not too madding. Basic frame of the game has been out for a couple of years. Square already had a foundation to work on. I don't make video games but throwing in a class or two doesn't seem too far fetched.
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  17. vicious

    vicious Active Member

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    They have a foundation, yes, but one with a very, very bad reputation across the MMO community as a whole. No matter how much better we know it became after Yoshi-P took over, the stigma almost everyone throws on FFXIV is "massive failure at launch". I just don't see them throwing in another set of variables with nothing to gain. It would be a ballsy move - and I would respect them that much more for it - but it would be risky.
  18. Madrone Damodred

    Madrone Damodred Active Member

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    Especially if its a class that reuses a lot of spells/traits from exisiting classes. Previous FF titles have already worked out the basic dynamics of what these jobs are in comparison to one another...

    And I think adding new classes/jobs is a really good thing. It really helps cater to the legacy players who've already leveled to 50, gives them something new to work on. Plus big fan service by adding in a SMN, and a good move in a general MMO way also, to have a pet class. DoM is kind of lacking, so rounding out a DD, Healer, and pet/Dot role with something that's a hybrid makes sense and should be easier on dev resources than something totally new and different. SMN itself is seeing that kind of slowdown because of having to workout a system to govern the pet.
  19. Hyoda

    Hyoda Active Member

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    Kinda like poker right?

    [​IMG]
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  20. vicious

    vicious Active Member

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    Also, I feel I must add, that realm's new podcast talks briefly about scholar and whether it comes from arcanist about 1/3 of the way through.

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