Podcast Console Tanking

Discussion in 'Disciples of War' started by ll Dan G ll, Jun 3, 2014.

  1. ll Dan G ll

    ll Dan G ll Adventurer

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    Hi guys and gals,

    I play on PS4 and I've been thinking about taking a break from DPS and giving tanking a go. I was just wondering if any other console players out there would share their experiences. I've heard a few people saying that tanking with a controller is more difficult than with a keyboard/mouse.

    Also, what class/job would you recommend? I already have MRD at 15 because of DRG, but I prefer the look of GLA/PLD. Obvioulsy looks won't get me very far when it comes to keeping aggro! So what class/job would be best suited to console tanking (if there is one).

    Thanks:)
     

  2. Nyekun

    Nyekun Crystal Brave

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    I haven't gotten my WAR to 50 yet but I honestly don't feel any difficulty between the two in terms of playing on the consoles aside from some minor things that aren't too important.

    The closest thing to being 'hard' for tanking on the console is targeting monsters as you have to scroll through 1 by 1 depending on what way you're facing and what's inbetween that monster and you. Like you might lose a target while holding a mob and end up having to scroll through several monsters before you get it to reclaim aggro. Of course, with practice you can learn how to do it faster or even skip targeting the other monsters but if you don't do it fast enough, party members will get hit and that's the end results. Mouse users can just click it.

    You will almost never use Cover as a PLD either because of the above, because of the targeting system for controllers, you will be likely not able to react quickly enough to 'save' someone from getting hit, maybe after the second hit and after. Not saying it isn't possible but you'd need really good reaction time and most PLDs you see will never use cover in general.

    If you want more variety, go with WAR, PLD is the same from start to end game. Nothing but a single combo their entire life with a bunch of cool downs. I only went PLD because they have a sword. Yep, that's it. WAR's are pretty amusing with their 5 digit HP at endgame though.
     

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  3. ll Dan G ll

    ll Dan G ll Adventurer

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    Thanks for the info, being able to target specific enemies quickly was one of my main concerns:)

    Also, after reading up on each class/job, I get the idea that GLA/PLD is all about damage mitigation, while MRD/WAR is about restoration. But what about the damage output, do they each do equal amounts of DPS or is one 'stronger' than the other?

    Sorry to keep asking questions, but I want to be sure before I sink X amount of hours into it:D

    Thanks again:happy:
     

  4. Rosebee

    Rosebee Crystal Brave

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    If you want to deal high damage, then don't play a tank. :)
     

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  5. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    PAL is about damage mitigation, yes. WAR is honestly probably less about self-healing and more about damage soaking. The Warrior does have a lot of self-healing abilities, but they're more stopgaps than something to really sustain you over a long period of time in a tough fight. The Warrior's greatest asset is the ridiculously deep HP pool. He soaks all the damage, but he can take it, unlike a certain somebody hiding behind a shield. *cough* ;P

    When it comes to damage output, Marauder far outstrips Gladiator. I'm not sure about Warrior versus Paladin though; I imagine a Marauder with Defiance on (which reduces damage output by 20%) might not be that much stronger than a Paladin. However, since the WAR's self-healing relies entirely on damage dealt—it's all "absorb x% of damage dealt"—they necessarily do more damage. Soloing with a Marauder/Warrior is much faster than the same with a Gladiator/Paladin (I play WAR, my brother plays PAL, and we compare notes).

    (I'm assuming you're asking about damage for solo stuff. Admittedly it's a bit frustrating when it takes you forever to kill things by yourself.)

    As for targeting, I have two recommendations. If I'm just trying to do rotations, I use R1/L1 while holding down R2 to cycle. In those cases, it doesn't really matter the order in which I cycle, because I'm just trying to keep up aggro on everything. When I need to get to a specific enemy, like if I've lost aggro on something, I hold down L1 and press up or down on the D-pad. That will scroll through all enemies in that list on the left of the screen. It's handy. (I only heard of that method recently, and I was cursing how long it'd taken for me to find out. It's immensely helpful.)

    It WOULD be much easier to target with a mouse, though; there's no doubt about that.
     

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  6. Gara Bloodreaver

    Gara Bloodreaver Scion

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    Paladin- lower health high damage mitigation
    warrior- stupidly high health mitigates damage with a combination of weaker mitigation skills and placing damage debuff on targets and weak self heals.
     

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  7. Laventious

    Laventious Crystal Brave

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    I'm playing as a pld and love it I haven't had any problems yet with the controls or marking I got used to it :p I haven't played war yet so I can't give you much info on them
     

  8. ll Dan G ll

    ll Dan G ll Adventurer

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    Thanks for the advice everyone:)

    I decided to go down the GLA/PLD route, and I am LOVING it so far. It's making the dungeon runs much more interesting:D

    One further question I do have, how do you cope when dps decide to attack a different a target making it nearly impossible to keep aggro? It's only happened a couple of times (in the same run:facepalm:), but it caused us to wipe. I tried to get aggro back but ended up losing it on the rest of the mob:(

    It may just be that the dps in question was being a douche, but I thought I would ask in case anyone has some tips or tricks:)

    Also, to all the people that have posted and offered their opinions/advice... just-remember.jpg
     

  9. Laventious

    Laventious Crystal Brave

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    I usually use flash combo and repeat and I don't lose aggro aslong but they might have just been a douchey player I mark my mobs so they can get the hint lol
     

  10. ll Dan G ll

    ll Dan G ll Adventurer

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    Thanks @Laventious

    Marking targets is something I need to practice. I can't fit everything on one crossbar and I often mess it up when I'm trying to switch between them quickly:oops:
     

  11. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    Not sure what your crossbar setup looks like, but I have marks 1–3 on my dungeon crossbar, because those are the ones I need to use most. All my R2 buttons are for combat skills (primarily combos, interrupts, aggro generators), my L2+d-pad buttons are for potions and other combat skills I don't use quite as often, and my marks sit with Flash (since I'm WAR, not PLD, so it's not my primary area aggro-pull) on L2+face buttons.

    However, after a certain point that stopped being enough space for everything, so I started using those cross-hotbars or whatever they're called. They're in the hotbar settings; they let you pull up another half hotbar by pressing R2+L2 or L2+R2. I have it set to pull up the right half of one bar with R2+L2 and the left half of the same bar with L2+R2. My brother (who's a PLD) put his marks on one of those; I'd do it myself if I weren't so accustomed to having my marks where they are, so that might be useful for you. One way or another I just make sure to group things thematically, like how R2+L2+face buttons always gets me my WAR abilities that use Wrath stacks or R2+L2+d-pad gets me "oh crap I'm going to die at this rate" skills.

    Tl;dr you can fit marks 1–3 on your hotbar, and you'll rarely need more (when there are four enemies, the unmarked one is 4 XD). The cross-hotbars give you more options too, and if you don't want the marks on your main hotbar because you don't need them as often as your combat skills, you could assign marks to one of the cross-hotbars.
     

  12. ll Dan G ll

    ll Dan G ll Adventurer

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    Much appreciated @praysolace :)

    I never knew you could do that with the cross-hotbars! I'll definitely have a look at it tonight, it sounds like the solution to my space issue:)
     

  13. Ish

    Ish Scion

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    I would say the whole stigma of "console" players be wrong.
    We have tanks in our FC that are on PS3 and PS4 who play Warrior and Paladin and they have no issues at all.
    I know one tank uses macros to make it easier.
    Low level healers and even arcanist pets can easily pull agro from tanks as Gladiator/PLD and Maurader/Warrior get better abilities later on for agro
     

  14. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    Always last to the party. As my first mmorpg and starting up on the ps3 (now ps4) as a GLA, learning to tank on the console was a bit of a struggle. The 3 points of primary concern were (in order):

    1. Targeting, which is no longer a concern after fiddling with my settings and using the target filters option
    2. Crossbar space and ease of access, which I overcame by using 2 identical crossbars and swapping the less frequently used skills on one for other skills/marks. And it got even better when they added the L2+R2 crossbar which I now use for my less-frequent/less-urgent buffs and potions (PLD has a lot of buffs)
    3. HUD setup, which is less of an issue now with PS4 since you have more size options on the HUD elements and can view them in a smaller setting that just didn't work on ps3.

    It's all doable, but it'll probably require some fiddling on your part.

    Both classes can manage enmity, though WAR does it with greater ease, and both classes can survive the heavy content and "oh s**t" moments, but PLDs do it with greater ease. I often hear people say WAR is more fun. Personally not crazy about it at about level 42, as I tend to just buff my DPS, drop a CD, spam OverPower and then afk to get a drink while dps does their thing. As PLD I was required to work in a party. Though I will say as MRD (pre-WAR) being a tank was scary, I spent most dungeons runs near death because I had limited hp and next to no natural mitigation compared to GLA.
     

    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
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  15. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    I'm just going to point out how surprised I am to hear that, since I never once came close to dying in a dungeon until Brayflox. The MRD-level dungeons were easy mode. I gotta wonder if you just had bad healers or something.
     

  16. GeekMatt

    GeekMatt Moderator

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    I was scared for my life in Sastasha at level 15 until I gained a level, popped some food and got one or two gear pieces lol. My honest view is that MRD is more DPS than tank until he becomes WAR. Now as WAR I feel OP, which is a bit dull but I expect it to get more fun at 50, much like WHM.
     

  17. ll Dan G ll

    ll Dan G ll Adventurer

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    @praysolace thanks again for the tip with the cross bars, it's worked great. I've got more room for my abilities and all of my marks/waypoints are set to L2+R2, it makes it so much easier to mark targets:)

    I wish more tanks would take the time to mark targets. When I'm playing as Bard, 9/10 times they won't bother marking which delays the onslaught because people are either trying to figure out which target to attack, or attacking anything and causing the boss to lose aggro:mad:
     

  18. praysolace

    praysolace Warrior of Light

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    Ooooooh that's why. I was chronically overleveled for every dungeon until that stopped being physically possible (dangit level cap!) so Sastasha was a walk in the park (well, except for the archer who liked to run straight into the center of every mob, way ahead of me). I guess being overleveled and partially overgeared made a bigger difference near the beginning than it did later on, and that's why I found it all so easy in the beginning.

    Yay, I'm glad it's working for you!

    So true about marks in general, though. I started an alt character to play with my brothers, a Summoner this time, and between us we've got the healer and both DPS. We're a little past Titan and so far the only tanks who've marked have been the two newbie tanks who asked for advice (and our advice included "mark"). I really don't understand why so few tanks mark, particularly in lower-level dungeons when we're less likely to be able to just AOE everything down. I've guessed wrong on the tank's target (I use a target's target macro, but if he's rotating damage around the mobs, that doesn't necessarily help me) and gotten aggro very quickly—especially bad since, as a DoT class, I'm going to keep generating aggro as those DoTs tick down, even after I've realized I was on the wrong mob. It hasn't gotten me killed yet, but several of the tanks refused to pick the mob off me even when I pulled it right to them, presumably because I screwed up. Well, if they'd mark, we wouldn't have this problem! *pouts*
     

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  19. Kaven

    Kaven Crystal Brave

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    Like any MMO, regardless of control type.
    It's all about muscle memory.

    I tanked all end game content on a PS3 Controller pre Ps4 release. Most people who didn't know I was on a PS3 were surprised when they found out as they assumed I was a PC / KB,M player. There will always be a stigma surrounding console players but like anything, repetition and muscle memory will allow you to be as reactive as anyone else.
     

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  20. Maaja

    Maaja Moderator

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    Seems everyone has offered up some good advice. I WAR tank using a controller on PC. I think it's good advice to set up your crossbar how you intend to use it form the beginning because of muscle memory. For example, if you're going to use the 3rd/4th cross bar set (holding down l2/r2 with either side of the cross bar - it's great use of extra skill spaces without having to toggle thru the crossbar sets.) set it up so that you access something there from the beginning. I know, for me, this would have been more useful, cos using that set now feels a little clunky to me. I also want to mention, I have a marking macro using Tomahawk, could be used with Shield Lob. I mark the first one, then when it's dead, I mark the second target with the same macro, etc. Easy peasy.
     

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